How Career Services and Admissions Collaborate at Binghamton University

Lexie Avery:

For career services professionals, what can you be doing to tailor your message to admissions and make it something that they’re curious about and interested in? Because admissions hears from everyone on campus who we all think our things are important. I would say traditionally career services has to be pretty scrappy on a college campus and figuring out the different ways that we can integrate into already existing structures and try to get into the classroom, but also be student facing and work with student leaders, but also employers. We tend to have to just find our place and sort of wiggle our way in. And so I think it’s just really important from a career services lens that again, you’re sort of patient and that you might have a ton of ideas in your mind, but really listening to admissions or whoever the partner is about what their goals are, and you’re going to have better luck really listening and processing and then sort of going back and saying, “Hey, I heard you say this. I think we can help you.”

Meredith Metsker:

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Career Everywhere podcast. I’m your host Meredith Metsker, and today I am joined by Lexie Avery and Melissa Lawson, both of Binghamton University. Lexie is the senior associate director of student engagement and career readiness, and Melissa is the director of admissions communications. Thank you both for being here.

Lexie Avery:

Thank you for having us. We’re excited.

Melissa Lawson:

Good to be here.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah. I am so glad you’re both here, and I’m excited to talk to you today about how career services and admissions partners there at Binghamton. This type of partnership is obviously top of mind for a lot of career services and admissions leaders right now, especially as the ROI of higher ed continues to be a hot topic and as more and more students, their parents, and even government officials are asking more questions about career outcomes. So I know you all work very closely together there at Binghamton and have seen some very tangible results. So I’m excited to dig into your specific strategies and some of those results with you today. Before I get into my questions though, is there anything else either of you would like to add about yourselves, your backgrounds, or your roles there at Binghamton?

Lexie Avery:

I don’t think so personally about me. I do think it’s helpful. Melissa and I, our offices are in different sort of areas on campus in terms of who we report up through, so I’m sure we’ll get into that a little bit. But I think where you report can play a role sometimes in what you have access to and luckily the differences in reporting structure hasn’t hurt our relationship and partnership. I think, if anything, it’s made us stronger in what we have access to and the resources. So excited to hopefully break down some of those barriers for people who sort of are feeling like, okay, we’re in different reporting structures or lines on campus, how can we make this work? We’ve been able to do it, so I think we’re excited to share about that.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah. Great. Anything to add, Melissa?

Melissa Lawson:

No, I think that that is helpful context. I think helpful context about admissions too before we start diving into the details is the volume that we work with. I think sometimes you’ll hear about a program or relationship and think that, sure, that works at a small school, but it might not work here. But we are mid to large size institution admissions processed over 61,000 applications this year, and I know that Lexie is very busy in her office with our current student body of around 15,000 undergraduates. So we’re a decently large school that is still able to have these close connections.

Meredith Metsker:

That’s great, and that’s really helpful context for sure. That’s a lot of applicants. That’s a lot. It sounds like you all stay busy. Cool. Well, before I get into my more specific questions about our topic today, I do want to kick us off with the question I ask all of our guests on this podcast, and that’s what does career everywhere mean to you?

Lexie Avery:

Yeah, I told Melissa I would start off since this is more our realm of things, but yeah, I think for me and especially now with just what’s happening in the world, career everywhere is really about access and equity for students. So the more career development and opportunities are embedded into a student’s experience, the more access they’re going to have, and that’s part of what makes it equitable for them. So those are just two words immediately that come to mind that I think are really important. Again, especially now as we’re sort of seeing so much change happen across the college landscape but even broader than that, so that’s what comes to mind for me.

Melissa Lawson:

I was thinking of it from the admission angle. So I’ve been in this office for about almost 14 years. I started as an admissions counselor and now moved to the communication side. But over the years have seen how much career has played into the college search process and the admissions process where students are even starting to look at colleges might be based on what job they want in the future or what job they think they may want. It’s how they’re deciding where to apply and how they’re deciding where to choose a college. And I think it’s just been growing and importance over the time that I’ve been here.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s a great point you brought up about how it plays into that choice, because we know that students have a lot of choices when it comes to higher education. I think that will continue to be the case, especially as we face the enrollment cliff, as they call it, just fewer students to go to college. So yeah, that’s I think a really, really key point. Well, now I would love to dig into our topic today, which is again, how career services and admissions partner there at Binghamton. So we’ll just jump right into it. Can you just walk me through some of those key ways that admissions and career services collaborate?

Lexie Avery:

Yeah, yeah. So we’re going to break it up a little bit I think from a programmatic perspective that I think will make sense across university, and then also some presence and marketing pieces that have helped us as well. From a programmatic perspective, a lot of our work has started, and I think will resonate with others around the open houses and admitted student days that happen on campus, more specifically the admitted student day piece, because at that point, we’re hoping that their experience here will encourage them to commit and then come to Binghamton. And so we’ve been very lucky that admissions has asked us to be a part of that admitted student days, and that’s from an awareness sort of perspective at their student services fair, but also we host a session that’s specifically around student outcomes and the ways that the career center supports students’ outcomes.

So that’s everything from highlighting services and resources, but specifically experiential education, the connection with alumni, opportunities, all of those pieces are a big part of that. I know they had a really successful weekend last weekend for admitted student day. So that’s been something we’ve consistently been doing, and it’s always quite a popular session that we offer. Some other things that we do during the semester, we manage a career cluster model that we use uConnect to sort of engage students in. And so one of the programmatic opportunities that students have is essentially to attend a career cluster session where we have consultants who work primarily with those specific clusters to share for students how. If you’re interested in business and entrepreneurship, here are some strategies and ways that you can go about exploring those opportunities or experiential learning that we have on campus related to that cluster.

And so we’ve done those for every cluster that we have, and it’s open to students and their families because as Melissa pointed out, both are interested. I think the transition of, it used to be more families, it used to be more families asking these questions, but now we have juniors in high school coming in and asking us what the placement rate is for a specific major that they’re considering. So it’s definitely changing the landscape, and so we’re trying to tailor the experience for students in those career cluster sessions and the outcome sessions can really be helpful. So programmatically, those are some things that I think are also replicable at other campuses too. In terms of some of the presence and marketing pieces, we certainly are there as a support for any high school guidance counselors that come to campus. So admissions does a great job of both New York State counselors and then also out of state.

And so we always present to those counselors to just sort of show what we offer at Binghamton that’s different, what we have that you’re not going to find anywhere else. And so we’re able to, for a number of years now, going to be a part of that experience. And then the flip side that I think maybe is a little bit more unique is on a few different occasions. We’ve actually had staff travel with admissions counselors, specifically when we’re looking at out-of-state students again to show them this is what’s different at Binghamton. We can provide X, Y, and Z that other schools can’t. So I think those are some things that sort of come to mind, and I know Melissa is going to share some as well.

Melissa Lawson:

Yeah, that I wanted to bring up with presence in marketing. We had a really unique opportunity recently to partner with The Times of India to increase our marketing presence in India. We had a marketing package that included an article, some digital ads, and a webinar. And so as part of this webinar, we had an admissions representative and we were able to bring in another speaker as well, and we immediately thought it has to cover outcomes and career preparation. It’s so important to that audience. So Lexie joined us for that where they were able to talk about graduate success resources and the way that the career services team brings value to your educational experience at Binghamton. Another way that we do this through our marketing messages, thinking about our students who have committed paid their deposit. That time during the summer between when they pay the deposit, when they come to campus, we have a communications committee where we help to manage the messaging that they get during that time.

There’s so many important things that they have to do like registering for orientation, being prepared to pay their bill, getting courses, those sort of things. We send a message to them that highlights some of the opportunities and programming with career services too, so it’s already top of mind when they start. So some pieces of that include a two credit online summer career exploration course that will get students ready before they even get here, talks about general programming and then outlines there, kickstart your career program, which is designed to help first year students with career exploration through workshops, consultations, mentors, and other pieces.

So we would like to get that to our students before they even step foot here. Another big piece for us is our admissions counselors, who are the ones who are going out on the road, they’re at the fairs, they’re at the high schools, they’re expected to know everything. They know a little bit about as much as they can. So what we like to do to prepare them is to bring in the experts across campus. So bring in somebody from the Fleishman Center to talk about what’s new, what’s important, so that way, they’re able to answer questions, they’re able to market the university through the career services and have those up-to-date talking points even though they’re not the experts, they have the talking points, which is great.

Meredith Metsker:

Wow, that’s a lot. That’s really cool though. I appreciate that you all are walking the walk when it comes to showing prospective students that you kind of approach things differently. You really take career outcomes seriously, and you track it and you have figured out how to tell your story around that. That’s really cool. Yeah.

Lexie Avery:

I think part of the partnership in that importance, and Melissa can share a little bit about this too, but is also sort of engaging with the students in a lot of different ways, so student leaders on campus. And for us, that’s supporting the tour guide program as well. That’s a component. I think as people are listening, you’ll sort of probably see the back and forth of, okay, I see what admissions gets out of this. I see what the career center gets out of this incoming students. But there’s also that other bucket of student leaders that are a part of all types of admissions roles, I’m sure all over the country. And so they can also play an important role in this as well. So just wanted to give them a shout-out as well.

Melissa Lawson:

Yes, our tour guides are wonderful about talking about these opportunities. We have the career center as a stop on all of our admissions tours. And so they run through the services, the programs, but the most important thing that they do during that stop is talk about their experience, how have they utilized the career center or their friends and how has it benefited them. And that is what a family’s going to remember. They’ll remember maybe some of the services, some of the facts and figures we threw their way, but they remember those stories. So when these tour guides are using these services, it’s benefiting them, and they’re able to pass that along about how this could benefit you.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah. I would love to hear more about that specifically like this, how you work with the tour guides. And I think in our prep call, you mentioned some professional development that you do with them. Can you just share more about what that training looks like for the tour guides and any specific messaging that you provide?

Lexie Avery:

Yeah. So there’s a couple different things. At Binghamton, the tour guides really manage a lot of their experience and the hiring and the training of their peers. And so one thing, we’ve always been invited to come in and share talking points of what we hope that they do cover when they come to the career center and they stop outside our office. So we’ve always been sort of a part of that process and kind of the storytelling around what we want students experience to be, and then they match that with what their experience actually is. From a professional development perspective, there’s a couple of different things that we’ve done. So in our case, the tour guides train and also interview the incoming class of tour guides. And so we come in and provide professional development for the students who are going to be conducting the interviews about how to remain impartial in the process, right?

Naturally, when students are interviewing students, there’s going to be, well, I know this person or have this relationship with that person, or they have an outgoing personality, and so all of these different factors that sort of come into play. And so we’ve provided some framework and resources for them to think about what makes a great tour guide. How can you really strategize to make the entirety of the program really reflective of our student body as well? And so we’ve done a lot of sessions around that so students feel confident in the interviewing process and also how to take notes and how to provide feedback to the applicants and those sorts of things.

And then we’re also there on the beginning part as well. So students who are interested in becoming a tour guide, we will provide them professional development sessions on how to answer interview questions, how to really tell your story, and those are all collaborative. So I typically present with the hiring tour guide student that that’s the lead in that capacity. So it feels like it’s very tangible, very practical. And so those are a couple of the professional development ways that we feel like it’s important to give back to student leaders, but it also again means all of us as entities are on the same page, and again, what we want the experience to be and for students to also benefit from that.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, that’s a great opportunity to do that kind of professional development.

Lexie Avery:

Yeah, and I think they enjoy it. They enjoy it from the landscape for their own development in interviewing, but I do think it makes them stronger candidates. The best part is having a student in your session and then the next semester, you see them giving a tour outside of your office. So it’s a feel good for everybody. But yeah, I think it’s been beneficial. It’s been a fun partnership with them.

Meredith Metsker:

So I’m curious, you mentioned that the career center is a stop on every campus tour, but what messaging are you giving the tour guides? How are you asking them to talk about career services in the career center?

Lexie Avery:

So I think the biggest thing for us is that we’re the centralized career center and we’re here for all of your career development needs. So there’s kind of a path for everyone. And so we do encourage the students to tell their own story and how they figured out what career they’re interested in. And there’s certainly a number of tools and resources we could have them sort of list out, but it’s really for us about the tailored experience. So allowing the student to say, this is my major, this is my career interest, and these are the different things that I’ve taken advantage of to help sort of excel in their career path, I think has been really important. A couple of the big things that have become more popular are certainly around experiential learning and the opportunities available there, the amount of internship funding that we have available for students as well.

And then I think one of the things that has become, again, more and more popular is just the value of the alumni network at Binghamton, and I think that is part of what makes Binghamton really special. Alumni want to give back and support and be involved in the career development of the current students. And so those are some of the pieces I think that they speak about, but we really want them to tell their own authentic story about their interactions with us, because that’s to Melissa’s point is what’s going to stick with them more than here’s a list of the things we offer. It certainly helps that they stop right outside the office. We have full glass windows. They can see students and peers engaging. They can see presentations happening in the programming room, and so that helps also just sort of speak to what they’re saying. They can also visually see that as well.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, absolutely. Anything to add, Melissa?

Melissa Lawson:

Well, I was just going to say that yes, they’re telling stories and they’re hitting these talking points, I think is perfect, right? The other thing is because they’re using these services, it’s a walking example, so it’s just showing the outcome of what that is. Our tour guides, we constantly get remarks in our visit surveys and just in person too about how polished they are, how well-spoken, how informative, and it makes a difference. I think a tour guide can make or break a campus experience, so I would definitely recommend that kind of relationship with the tour guides.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, absolutely. Earlier one or maybe both of you mentioned that when career services goes along with admissions on out of state visits or things like that, you’re talking about what makes Binghamton different, I think especially in regards to career outcomes. Would you mind sharing what you’re telling some of those students and their families?

Lexie Avery:

I can start, Melissa, and then feel free to pop in. I think part of what makes Binghamton different is that you can tell the prioritization of students’ outcomes and therefore sort of the ROI on their experience before they even start at Binghamton. So having juniors and seniors engage and know that at Binghamton, you’re sort of starting that early. We engage with about 80% of the first year class in their first year in some capacity. And so you can tell starting right away on the first day of class, there’s first year students in here working on their resumes, looking for an internship, and that’s not the same as it was 10 years ago when I had first started. I think sharing those stories, it’s very similar to a tour guide. I share stories. I don’t necessarily preach facts to families and things like that, but it’s saying this is what my observation is and the change over the last 10 years or so.

And so I think that’s part of it. We’ve ingrained and we’ve decided as a campus. This is just part of the culture at Binghamton. This is what we do. It’s not weird to have an internship. It’s exciting. It’s important to get research experience and to engage in the community and to go abroad and all of those things. And so we’re creating that culture before they even arrive. And I think that’s why you’re seeing juniors asking about it when they come on a campus visit. So I think that’s really different.

I do think in terms of our resources and staff size is also different from other universities. The fact that we can have uConnect, we can have Interstride, we can have all of these different platforms that allow us to really scale. So I think the resources piece is incredibly important, and that goes right into internship funding too. Internship funding is huge to allow our students that equity piece that all students can have an internship, and it can be paid or unpaid, and they still have the ability to apply and sort of offset that. So I try to tell stories as I go through of these different points of what makes it feel and experience it differently than other schools. But I think that culture piece is what I’ve sort of seen really shift over the last 10 years or so. I don’t know. Melissa, do you have any other points that you specifically point to?

Melissa Lawson:

It’s what you’re saying, it’s the stories that make it feel attainable. And this is sort of combined with, it’s exactly what you’re saying, maybe from the flip perspective too. We’re seeing that the student who’s the right fit for Binghamton, who should apply, who should enroll? These are the students who are going to seek out these opportunities. They’re go getters, that’s who’s going to fit in here. Our students are busy, right? And so I think that that fuels itself in a way. So they hear these stories, they understand that this is something that they can do at Binghamton, and that there are people here to support them along the way so that way they can do it. And so that they know that upfront when they’re submitting an application, they can start thinking about next steps.

Meredith Metsker:

That’s great, and it sounds like it has worked really well for you, this approach that you’re taking. And I know we’ll kind of get into some of those results here in a minute. Before I kind of pivot us to talking more specifically about this partnership and how it came about, is there anything else either of you wanted to add about the specific strategies and ways that you are working together?

Lexie Avery:

I think those are the biggest, the biggest ones that we wanted to make sure we highlighted.

Meredith Metsker:

Okay. Awesome. So yeah, now I would love to talk about how this strong partnership between your two offices came about. How did it start and what steps did you take to break down some of those traditional silos on campus?

Lexie Avery:

Yeah. I mean, I think it’s evolved over time, definitely starting with any partnership, starting with one ask on either side and having success in that, and then it can evolve from there. I do think a story that I like to tell is our director of the Fleishman Center. When we first became the Fleishman Center 10 and a half years ago, Kelly Smith, she actually went on a campus tour when she first arrived on campus for the sole purpose of she didn’t really know that much about the campus. She had just moved from Nebraska, and so learning about the campus and the community.

So I think that showed her the possibilities for partnership based on the different talking points and the stops and things like that. Prior to being in the university union where we are located now, we were in the basement of the library, and so the basement of the library wasn’t probably a stop on the admissions tour at that point. And so I do think that change in location, sort of the naming gift and expanded resources really helped sort of showcase the value that the career center can have. But I always like to tell that story, because I think it opened a lot of opportunities just organically based on things that she heard, the stories of students that have sort of propelled things from there.

Meredith Metsker:

Okay. Yeah. Anything to add on your end, Melissa?

Melissa Lawson:

I think that those are all really good points. I think that’s great advice is to, if you’re in the career center, take a tour and give your admissions office a heads-up that you’ll be honest. Nothing throws a tour guide off like seeing an advisor, but I think it’s helpful. It’s a starting point, and then can talk through how you can benefit the students by benefiting each other.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, that’s great advice. So if you’re listening to this, go take a campus tour if you haven’t already.

Melissa Lawson:

You might notice sort of things.

Lexie Avery:

You’ll learn all types of things.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Learn more about your campus, but also you can learn how career services or how career outcomes is being talked about, if at all. And that can definitely inform your strategies going forward and hopefully a partnership of your own with admissions. So I’m curious, what results have you both seen from this collaboration between career services and admissions?

Lexie Avery:

Yeah, I mean, I think I can talk about some of the visuals from the career center perspective, and then Melissa can speak to what she’s really hearing from students and their families. I think as I’ve mentioned already, there’s sort of a visual indicator of the first week of class and the entire center is covered with first year students wanting this information and knowledge. So I think for us, that’s really important and sort of feeds into our early engagement strategic plan that we really try to keep up with and keep track of.

So I think that piece is really important. I think you’re also seeing just across campus career services being integrated into a lot of different spaces. So whether it’s partnerships with other campus entities like residential life and orientation and those types of things where I have to think that without admissions as sort of a, I guess, steadfast kind of partner. We wouldn’t be able to see the need of where else to be, because they’re hearing from our newest customers, our newest students that are coming in. And it’s helped to showcase for us what are the next moves, but the visual indicator when we look at the data, how many first year students are engaging on their own, I think for us, that’s really what we’re looking for. I don’t know from admissions what you were thinking but…

Melissa Lawson:

Yeah, I mean really simple thing is that I think that we are more equipped than ever to be able to answer these questions or even refer. Having this partnership, if a prospective family really wants to get into the weeds about something, we have people that we can point them to and who will answer their questions and help them make the college choice. And I think that that shows also the supportive nature of the university in general, that we are working together to help students no matter what stage they’re at in the process.

We know this is so important because you hear it all the time, but something that admissions has been doing for a couple of years is that we survey our incoming students, and that has put some hard numbers on how important this is. So this is a survey, kind of a lengthy survey, but we send it to our deposited students before they come in the fall. And so we try to gauge a lot of different things. So for instance, what are the factors that influence their decision to choose Binghamton University? And the majority of students, over 70% responded that they were impacted by the availability of internship opportunities and as well as career placement of Binghamton alumni. So these, for over 70% of students, that was part of their deciding factor on choosing Binghamton. So it’s definitely important that we have this relationship so that way, we know that we can serve those students.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, I’m glad you brought up the survey, because I think that’s not only a great way to just kind of gauge the response from incoming students, but also I imagine a good way for you Lexie and your team to see what are students expecting as they come in. So I’m curious, how do those survey results kind of influence how you all do outreach for those early students?

Melissa Lawson:

Yeah, that’s the other half of the survey. So we asked, what made your decision to choose Binghamton? And then we said, what do you expect once you get here? And so we did ask specifically, what’s the likelihood of participating in an internship? And 93% of students said that there is a high likelihood of them doing that, right. So I think that Lexie, you see these students then pretty quickly.

Lexie Avery:

Yeah, it is. Again, it’s very different than it was when I first started in this office where you are seeing first year students in their first week of class coming and wanting an internship or that they actually had an internship in high school and so they’re ready to take that next step. So we’re definitely seeing that more the experiential education piece of things. And Melissa mentioned something that I had not really thought about, but we have had an increase in students before they even commit to Binghamton wanting to talk to the career center and walk through their different options. And they’re asking us questions like, why would I go here versus there? And so I certainly can’t speak to other schools and what they have to offer. I can only speak to what we have to offer at Binghamton by showing the alumni outcomes information.

So I can tell you that if you major in X, these are the types of internships, these are the roles that alumni go on and graduate with, and these are the companies that they’re currently working at. And so helping that kind of be a part of the conversation has been really helpful, but it’s definitely a shift in a positive way. We love that they’re thinking about it. And really our summer career exploration course that Melissa mentioned as well has primarily been incoming first year students. So they’ve not taken a college class yet at Binghamton, but they’re taking our career exploration course over the summer. And so I think it shows the importance of the partnership, but I think it’s also students and their families are paying attention, and we have an opportunity to really listen to what they’re saying, listen to what their experience is and really integrate into that. And it’s not always that you’re starting something from scratch, it’s asking questions and figuring things out from there. But they definitely inform what we market, how we market it, and we’ll continue probably as students change and as their families change moving forward.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, I imagine that makes a big difference for students and their families. If they can hear that specific data, not only can they hear the stories, but they can be confident that you are tracking it and that you will continue to tell those stories and share that information with students throughout their lifecycle. So to kind of summarize, it sounds like, I mean, you’re all partnering and exposing prospective students to career services before they’re even committed, correct?

Lexie Avery:

Yeah.

Meredith Metsker:

So you’re involved in admitted days on campus. Your career services is going with admissions on out-of-state visits. You are involved in orientation, is that correct, Lexie? Orientation? You have the summer career exploration course. What else am I missing? There’s so many things you’re all doing.

Lexie Avery:

I mean, I think before they even get there, the fact that we have the opportunity to speak to high school guidance counselors, that’s a part of it as well and sort of getting the brand of Binghamton out there. I don’t know how many other visits they’re going on that they hear from the career center. So I think they’re always impressed when they leave just about the different paths available to their students, right?

Melissa Lawson:

I think that’s a huge one because it trickles down so far. That’s what I was going to say too is that, so we will host, say 40 school counselors for this visit, which we’re doing two of, but think about how many students, each of those 40 counselors talk to, how many parents they talk to over the years. So it’s a huge impact in just that. What do you do about 20 minutes for each group on each of those? So that is definitely one that I think is very far-reaching.

Meredith Metsker:

Do a lot of career centers do that, talk to high school guides, counselors?

Lexie Avery:

I don’t know, and I’m sure that they do in some capacity. I think maybe what’s unique at Binghamton is that there’s a New York State version, but then they also do one for out-of-state students. So when you’re thinking about the reach there, just the name Binghamton is out there more, which is part of what we want from alumni and for students, so yeah.

Meredith Metsker:

Okay. Wow, that’s really cool. I am curious, what have the enrollment numbers looked like at Binghamton over the last several years?

Melissa Lawson:

So we’ve been getting, as you heard, a lot of applications. And so we have been holding pretty strong with our enrollment numbers. I said that 61,000 this year for a first year class of around 3,200. So we have been right around that number, give or take over the past few years. We’ve got a class of transfer students that come in as well, but Binghamton is feeling good about enrollment numbers lately, which is great. It’s very top of mind. This recording is sandwiched between our big admitted student day that we had on Sunday and the enrollment deposit deadline, which is May 1st. So it’s a busy week.

Lexie Avery:

The timing.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah. To confirm, you said you got 61,000 applications for a 3,200 person freshman class.

Melissa Lawson:

Yes.

Meredith Metsker:

Dang, those are some good results. Hard to argue with those numbers. Wow. Yeah, so I mean, not only is this partnership helping drive more applications and get a really strong freshman class, but these freshmen, as you were saying, Lexie, they are ready to get into the career services stuff like their first week on campus. They want internships, they want help with their resumes. It sounds like they are truly trying to kind of frame their college experience around career exploration, which I mean that’s ideal. That’s great.

Lexie Avery:

Yeah, it’s great news for the career center, but I think it’s becoming more and more important because students are coming in with what’s seeming to be more and more credits. So when I was in college, you came in, I had a few college credits, but I was still starting at a first year students standing, and it’s not the case anymore. Students are coming in with a ton of credits, and so they’re having to make more decisions faster when it comes to their major, when it comes to what their graduation year is going to be. So we have more and more students graduating in three years and staying for a four plus one program or something like that. And so it’s really important that they are giving the time and space that they developmentally need to make decisions. We don’t want to rush that process, but it means that they do have to start earlier.

They don’t have as much of that buffer in the first year or two as they explore gen eds. A lot of them don’t have a ton of gen eds to explore in anymore. And so the culture piece, I think if anyone hears anything else, that culture piece is so important and it takes a lot of time, but we’re seeing it with every incoming class that comes in. They’re engaged and they’re asking questions and they’re being thoughtful. And that’s ultimately what sort of changes the culture of your campus, and then they get back as alumni. So it’s like a cyclical thing, but yeah, it’s been really exciting to see and the more first year students that come in, the better. We’re excited about it.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, I was glad you mentioned that kind of cyclical nature, because that’s what I was thinking too. I’m like if you have students who are more engaged while they’re on campus, they’re more likely to be engaged alumni who will ideally talk to prospective students, and it’s just this gift that keeps on giving. Well, I’m curious, what advice would you both give to other admissions and career services teams who are looking to build a strong partnership like you all have?

Melissa Lawson:

So I think communicate, talk, connect, share. Lexie and I were talking about this yesterday about talk to each other about your goals, and you’ll start to see that they’re probably more aligned than you might think or that you gave time to think about. So have that conversation, start chatting. I think too, once you want to start connecting about programs, maybe start with one program, start with one option and try to work through that. And I think it’s also helpful to have some point people. So Lexie and I are usually the first to connect on something, and it’s almost never me actually pulling it off. A lot of times, it’s Lexie pulling it off, but it’s nice because we can start the conversation and make sure we’re on the same page and that it’s working for both of us and that we’re pulling in the details of how we’re going to do this and why we’re going to do this.

Lexie Avery:

Yeah. I think the only other thing I would add is that for some of these things, especially the culture change and those things take time, we didn’t see the results immediately. And so I think just being patient with your campus, patient with your office and different partners, because it does take time, it takes a belief on both sides that it’s important in moving forward. So I think that’s really important, especially when you’re hearing someone rattle off a bunch of different ideas. Nothing happened overnight and it was a steady sort of progression. And Melissa and I would check in and say, well, that really worked and families really liked that, so should we try this? And we’ve tried things that probably didn’t work either and have adjusted from there. So I think being patient with the partnership, but knowing that it does take time, but then it becomes a normal standard thing. I always just keep saying, this is just what we do at Binghamton, and that’s kind of become my signature tagline when I’m talking to families, so yeah.

Meredith Metsker:

I’m curious tactically what that communication looks like. It sounds like Lexie and Melissa, you both talked to each other maybe just on an ad hoc basis, but do the larger admissions and career services teams also meet regularly or what does that look like?

Lexie Avery:

Oh, we should.

Melissa Lawson:

Yeah, we pull in different people per project, but I do like the idea of doing a broader meeting for people to get to know each other better.

Meredith Metsker:

Annual summit, yeah. If you do that, you’ll have to keep me posted.

Melissa Lawson:

I think most people listening to this are going to be in the career services world, right? And so I’ll say if you’re approaching your admissions office, admissions is all about letting the prospective students and their families and the counselors hear from the experts. We know that they get tired of hearing from admissions. They can sometimes think of admissions as they’re the spokesperson, they’re the salesperson and they’re savvy. They want to hear from the expert. And so I think your admissions office will be very open to having uConnect in different ways to get you in front of these audiences to make an impact. That’s what you do best, and we want to cut out the middleman in some cases.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, I’m really glad you brought that up. Is there any other advice you would give to career services leaders who are wanting to approach admissions and want to make a proposal? I guess what is most compelling to you on the admissions side?

Melissa Lawson:

I think admissions offices are always going to want to be able to share examples with families. You talked a lot about stories. Those are so helpful. So admissions counselors can take that on the road. They can share it in their presentations when they have visitors. Tour guides can talk about them. Any information that we can pass along is going to be helpful. So I think that even if you started in a way of, hey, we’ve got some updated internship placements that are very exciting that we wanted to share with you. Hey, the tour piece that we talked about. Hey, do you want to share this on the tour? Things that you think are exciting and new and a marketing point will be really valuable for the admissions office to help prospective students understand what the experience is at your school and really help recruit with that tool.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah. I’m curious, Lexie, how do you share that information or what is the most helpful way to share that data, share those stories?

Lexie Avery:

Yeah, I mean, I think Melissa and I connect sort of randomly as things are coming up. I think in the beginning, we were a little bit more tactical about with the whole year what’s popping up. And now we’re sort of in a rhythm. I kind of know each year I’m going to be reached out to about the counselor visit and we usually discuss like, okay, what are you hearing? What should I be talking about? And making adjustments and changes to that over time. So I think it gets to the point where it’s pretty cyclical. Like admitted students days are the same time every year and the different presentations, the tour guides reach out about the same time every year. So I think because we’ve shown it worked, Melissa and I can connect pretty easily and say, is there any additional information that we want to make changes to, or this is what I’m hearing from current students that I think a good example is the experiential learning piece we were seeing for a couple of different years, first year students coming in and talking about internships right away.

And so internships for first year students can be challenging to find immediately after your first semester or first couple weeks starting at college. And so in the next round of admitted students day content, we highlighted internships. We also highlighted other ways that students could gain experience. And so I think it’s just being responsive to that. And Melissa and I are probably more casual in how we connect and communicate, whether it’s a chit-chat or just a phone call. But I think that’s built up over time of I know what she’s looking for. She knows what we kind of want to highlight. I’m sure there’s also things we could be doing better. We could have more streamlined conversations and meet as whole teams and things like that, but we’ve got a good relationship going, and again, that takes time too.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, sounds like you all have a really great foundation to build on for sure. Sort of on that note, do you have any future goals or anything like that for this partnership?

Lexie Avery:

Gosh.

Melissa Lawson:

We can never do enough, right?

Lexie Avery:

I mean, I do think in general, internships and experiential learning are not new by any means, but the level of competitiveness and the timeline of internships and really other experiences has really sort of creeped up on us. And so I do think we probably should be doing more around experiential learning and planning. We’re doing some work around, high impact practices and helping students map out what types of experience makes sense for their different industries of interest. So there’s lots of things sort of percolating in other places for us on campus that I think eventually will be a phone call to Melissa of, hey, we’ve been working on this.

We’d love to kind of highlight that. I think in some ways, Melissa is almost the last person to know when things are percolating, because I want it perfect. I want it really streamlined together. And then she helps us figure out what are the best ways to get that information out, or maybe it’s just letting the tour guides know, or maybe it’s [inaudible 00:48:42] admissions counselor know. So there’s certainly things around experiential learning that are percolating excitingly, I think as a campus. And so we’ll certainly want to continue sharing that with incoming students and their families as we progress.

Melissa Lawson:

And, of course, we’ll be sending out our next incoming student survey in the coming months. So we’ll see what comes up from that and we’ll have to make sure to connect to give you heads up or any other interesting facts that we pull from that.

Meredith Metsker:

I’ll be curious to hear what the new trends are, for sure. All right, well, I do want to be respectful of our time here, so I’ll start wrapping us up, but is there anything else either of you would like to add?

Lexie Avery:

I think I just had one thought to back up what Melissa was saying and your question Meredith, around for career services professionals like, what can you be doing to tailor your message to admissions and make it something that they’re curious about and interested in. Because admissions hears from everyone on campus who we all think our things are important. And so I would say traditionally career services has to be pretty scrappy on a college campus and figuring out that the different ways that we can integrate into already existing structures and try to get into the classroom, but also be student facing and work with student leaders, but also employers.

And so we tend to have to just find our place and sort of wiggle our way in. And so I think it’s just really important from a career services lens that again, you’re sort of patient and that you might have a ton of ideas in your mind, but really listening to admissions or whoever the partner is about, what their goals are, and you’re going to have better luck really listening and processing and then going back and saying, “Hey, I heard you say this. I think we can help you.” So I just wanted to highlight that because I think career services folks, again, very scrappy, very enthusiastic, and just want to do all the different things, but being responsive to other people’s goals and where you fit in can be a good intro point to a successful partnership.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, well said. That’s great advice. Anything to add on your end, Melissa?

Melissa Lawson:

No, that was great. I was laughing to myself a little bit because I would say our tour would probably be five hours long if we could keep people that long and show them everything, but it’s the little things. We’re going through all of this makes me think of we do so much together and sometimes it’s the little things that stand out. I’ll never forget, we were doing some visits in our reunion and families were coming in the wrong door and staff from Lexie’s office were walking them to the correct door. So I mean even those little things just show support for each other across the board and shows a welcoming and supportive environment to prospective visitors, to prospective families.

Meredith Metsker:

All right. Well, if anyone watching or listening would like to connect with you or learn more from you, where’s a good place for them to do that?

Lexie Avery:

LinkedIn’s probably the best place, and then I think we’re both happy to connect with people if they have questions or want to dive deeper into something or provide us feedback on things that they’re doing that we could also be doing.

Melissa Lawson:

Yes, LinkedIn will work for me as well. I’ll send all your good ideas.

Meredith Metsker:

All right. Great. I’ll be sure to include links to both of your profiles in the show notes so folks can reach out. All right. So at the end of every interview, I like to do this, answer a question, leave a question thing. So I’ll ask you a question. Our last guest left for you and then you’ll leave a question for the next guest. So our last guest was Dylan Hull of Santa Clara University, and he left this question for you, if you had to write a dissertation and conduct a research study, what would you research?

Lexie Avery:

We did talk about this because initially nothing came to mind, but I told Melissa I went more the playful route. So I’m very into interior design and colors and I’ve picked out a lot of the colors in the career center on campus. And so I would do something around effectiveness in the workplace versus the color and mood and decor and something in there all together, because I do think a nice looking space improves your work ethic and wanting to be there and all that stuff. So something around that more thoughtfully put together.

Meredith Metsker:

I love that. I could see the title being like vibes, how interior design affects your work productivity.

Lexie Avery:

Yes.

Melissa Lawson:

I would absolutely read that.

Lexie Avery:

I might have to do it then.

Melissa Lawson:

So I didn’t have my topic yesterday when we talked and I was thinking about it this morning, and so this is what was happening in my world this morning is I was reading one of my daughter’s books to her. She’s almost two. So I think that what I would want to research and write about is what makes the perfect children’s book for both child and parent because there’s some good ones, there’s some duds. She seems to really enjoy the ones that I find are duds. So I’d like to find what is that perfect formula.

Meredith Metsker:

I would also like to know that. I have a seven-month-old son, so I will read to him, but I mean he’s not really taking it all in all that much yet. But I do, I gravitate to certain ones because I’m like, okay, I can handle this. This isn’t like Brown bear, Brown bear. That’s a classic. I love that one. It’s easy.

Melissa Lawson:

We’ve got that one. I like it. She likes it too.

Meredith Metsker:

Cool. Well, what question would you both like to leave for the next guest?

Melissa Lawson:

So I’m going to draw some inspiration from our admissions counselors on this one because we, not me, our counselors, they do the welcome sessions when we have campus visitors. And so they like to do a question at the beginning of their welcome sessions to start getting the audience relaxed and engaged in a little bit. So I got a few from people, and so I’m going to throw this one out because it had me thinking. So the question is, are you a sweet or savory breakfast lover? And what is your breakfast of choice?

Meredith Metsker:

That’s a good one, and now it’s making me hungry. I’m a savory breakfast person for sure.

Lexie Avery:

Really the hard-hitting questions here, Meredith.

Meredith Metsker:

Yes. You know what? We’ve had many food related questions on this podcast. We’ve had questions about like, is a hot dog a sandwich? Are you a Coke or a Pepsi person? If you make chili without beans, is it still chili? So this fits it very well.

Lexie Avery:

Perfect.

Meredith Metsker:

Awesome. Well, that’s a great question for the next guest. So thank you for that. And just thank you both for taking the time to join me on the podcast today. This was a fun conversation, really tactical strategies that you both shared. So thank you for that. I know our audience is probably writing all this stuff down, and I’m sure they really appreciate it. So thank you again for taking the time and sharing your wisdom.

Melissa Lawson:

Thank you for having us.

Lexie Avery:

Thank you for having us.