How to Build a Data Culture in Your Career Center

Julia Vollrath:

Data is that common language that we can use as centers to communicate with different stakeholders. I think that the role of a director in career services has changed immensely, from an internal role that’s leading a team to an external-facing role. My ABP is in more meetings with people not in the career center than she is with people in the career center, and that’s her job, is she’s meeting with provosts, presidents, VPs, business leaders, all of this, and if you think about that common thread, that language, it’s data, they understand it. Business leaders use data in decision-making. We know what that North Star is, if you will, of student success and your academic mission of your university, and our work directly impacts that, and we can prove that through data, instead of just saying, “We should be in the room,” let me show you the data that says that we should already have that seat at the table.

Meredith Metsker:

Hey everyone, welcome back to the Career Everywhere podcast. I’m your host, Meredith Metsker, and today, I am joined by Julia Vollrath and Marissa Altenburg, both from the University of Florida. Julia is the director of career data, technologies and engagement, and Marissa is the integrative career solutions manager. They also both presented at our Career Everywhere conference in July, and it was just so much fun to get to meet them in person, even have dinner with them, so I’m just so excited to be talking to them again, and thank you both for being here.

Julia Vollrath:

Yeah, we’re so excited to be here. It was so great to meet you in person, I echo everything, and I can’t wait to chat today about this topic.

Marissa Altenburg:

Same thing, thank you for having us.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, so glad to have you both, and I’m excited to talk to you both today about how career services leaders can build a data culture within their team. So Julia, you’ve talked on this podcast before about how career centers can use data to engage more students, and then you both shared such great information on a similar topic at our conference last month. So there’s a ton of awareness and agreement, I think, about how important it is to track data, to analyze it and to use it to tell the career center story, and connect your work with high-level institutional goals. But sometimes, it’s hard to get the career team to buy in, or maybe there needs to be more education and training for your team on how to work with data. And so, that’s where this culture discussion comes in, how can career leaders foster that data culture for their team so it becomes a very integrated and natural part of how a career center operates?

So I know you both have played very pivotal roles in doing that at the University of Florida, where data is very much woven into the career center’s work, so I’m excited to dig into this topic with you today. But before I get into my more specific questions, is there anything else either of you would like to add about yourselves, your backgrounds, or your roles there at UF?

Julia Vollrath:

Yeah, absolutely. So I’ve been at UF for over 11 years now, and I have been working with our data for a majority of that time. So I have seen it from the very beginning. I always joke with folks, I remember coming into career services, it was like data’s the new bacon and we should be looking at data. And now, thinking about that, where we are now, we’ve grown so much and I think we’re in our new era of data culture, if you will, and how we can build that to help everyone see that they are a data person. So I am so passionate about this topic, I can’t wait to dive in, Meredith.

Meredith Metsker:

Love it. I also love the use of the word era. I feel like that’s very timely with the new T-Swift announcement.

Julia Vollrath:

T-Swift 12, yeah, here we are.

Meredith Metsker:

All right, Marissa, how about you?

Marissa Altenburg:

Yeah, I love being in good company of other Taylor Swift fans. But I would also like to add that, because I think it’s important to the conversation and how I will answer some of the questions today, is that I am a first-gen student, or was rather, and I’m also a first-gen higher ed professional, and that really plays a pivotal role in my identity and it informs and influences how I practice. Additionally, I am in a fun position at UF where I get to use my undergraduate degree in public relations and my minor in philosophy, which I love throwing out there, and along with my higher ed degree in my role.

I’ve been at UF for a little over three years now, I’m currently serving, as you mentioned, as the integrative career solutions manager, and that role really reflects how I bring the marketing, the strategic communication, the higher ed and the career expertise. And then, along with that, I manage two campus-wide platforms, so our uConnect platform that acts as our 24/7 career hub, and then Graduway, our Gator Network for building those virtual communities and connections. And a cool part of the work that I do is using data to tell stories to drive change, whether it’s that internal buy-in to integrate the EdTech and do career services differently, or it’s partnering with across campus to make that Career Everywhere a reality. And a favorite part of my job is being curious about the data and turning those insights into strategic solutions to solve those career challenges, as my title suggests.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, I love that. Thank you both for that good context. I also was just thinking, as I was reading your titles earlier, that seems pretty unique to have a director of career data, technologies and engagement, and then Marissa, you as the integrative career solutions manager. Am I accurate in that, is that relatively unique to have those niche roles?

Julia Vollrath:

Yeah, definitely. We have fully embraced EdTech here at the University of Florida, and with technology, you have data, they come hand-in-hand. So our team, that is our focus and our goal, and I’ve met with multiple career centers across the nation talking about this new way of thinking about delivering career services, how you’re able to scale more through technology. And I’m hopeful that it’s a new, I keep saying era, I’m in my era-era, career services, where we see more teams like this pop up. But yeah, I think that we’re paving the way out there looking at team structure.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, I love that. Y’all are serving as a template, I think, to other career centers. Okay, so before I get into the more specific questions about our topic today, I do want to kick us off with the question I ask all of our guests here on the podcast, and that’s, what does Career Everywhere mean to you?

Julia Vollrath:

Yeah, I can start. So I love this question. It has become a motto for the team that I’ve built, it is that career can’t happen in a vacuum, our work cannot happen in a vacuum, everyone at the university needs to be involved. And I think when we were at the conference, one of the speakers talked about how career services needs to move from student services to university services, and I think that summed it up perfectly and that’s what we need to focus on, it’s not just the partnerships that we’re building, but it’s getting champions across campus. I know that there has been a lot of talk around our partners in enrollment management. It needs to start at that very beginning of the value of higher education, how career can aid to those outcomes for students, all the way through to your alumni, it’s at every step of the student life cycle. So Career Everywhere is the new way of approaching it and it’s how we built our team. My team is focused on getting it out everywhere and working with campus partners in unique ways.

Meredith Metsker:

Nice, love that. Let’s see, Marissa, how about you?

Marissa Altenburg:

Yeah, I’m going to echo a lot, because like Julia said, she is mine direct supervisor, and we echo and live this out. And I know we talked about this at dinner at the conference and I’ve been pondering on it since, and really what it boiled down to me was creating an ecosystem where every student and alumni, because in our office, we do work heavily and rely on alumni, always a Gator, has access to career learning no matter where they are. To me, it’s about breaking down those silos, like Julia mentioned, but using technology and partnerships and storytelling and data to weave career into every corner of the university and every experience.

So Career Everywhere is not just a phrase, it’s a philosophy about making career accessible, personalized and embedded into daily life. And how I think that lives out with my work, it’s integrating those EdTech platforms, like the career hub and Gator Network, into the student journey, equipping campus partners with the tools and insights they need, using data to show that impact, that spark the collaborations, and ultimately the Career Everywhere is about fostering that belonging, empowerment and connections so that students and alumni see career not as a one-time appointment, but as that continuous part of their growth and life development and life design.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah. Well said. I also love how you phrased it as it’s not just a phrase, it’s a philosophy, that’s a good way to put it.

Julia Vollrath:

I love that. T-shirts.

Marissa Altenburg:

[inaudible 00:09:48]

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, I was like, that’s a golden little quote there. Well, great. Okay, so now I would love to dig into our topic today, which is, again, how career leaders can really build a data culture within their career center. So to give us some context for this discussion, can you share what you mean by data culture and what that looks like for your team?

Julia Vollrath:

Yeah. When we say data culture, we mean that it’s not just one person’s responsibility. So I think in past models, you’ve seen, if a career center has an assessment or a data person, that is the person that is looking at the data regularly, they’re pulling the information and it falls on one person’s plate, and that is if there is a data person. Not all career centers are able to have that, especially our one-people career center powerhouses out there. We need to work on that culture of embracing the fact that we are data people, and data is something you use literally every day and feeling more confident in that.

I think data, it’s a scary four-letter word, if you will, and we need to really look at how you use it in multiple facets of your work. So building that data culture starts with the confidence in what data do we have, it’s starting at ground foundational level, what data do we have, what data do we want, and who has that data, and why do we need it? And so then, once you have an understanding of the data, you can look at the definitions, that’s the next bit of your data culture. Because if I say, “Early engagement is this,” and I’d include freshmen, sophomore transfers, I call that early engagement, Marissa could say, “Well, I thought early engagement was just first year students.” So understanding that shared language is just as important as understanding the data that you have, because if we understand the data we have, but we call it two different things, we’re not aligning with that language. So that is really important.

And then, as leaders, we need to showcase to our staff how we’re using it in everyday work. It’s leading the way for staff, showing how I made this decision because I looked at these data points and this is how I came to the outcome, not doing it all behind the scenes and the curtains, it’s showcasing the use of data, because then when we think about our leaders at the very top, they’re using data every day to make decisions, and so we can’t just go with the, “I thought it was a really good idea, so I did it.” Or even worse, “Well, we’ve always done it this way.” We need to figure out how data can support that. And then, finally, we use it for storytelling. So you’re using it for decision-making and you feel confident in that, and then the power, you’re speaking a language of ROI, persistence, retention, you’re looking at graduation outcomes.

Graduation outcome data is something that we’ve been looking at for years and years, so we need to start using it in our story, and that’s that culture, where you’re embracing data in all aspects of the work and you’re using it not just to say, “Oh yeah, we have a First Destination Survey, here’s what it is.” But we’re using that First Destination Survey to look at even, I don’t know, this is a population of students that are waiting to look for jobs until after graduation, have we provided interventions to help them with that? Not just sitting on the data and saying, “Yeah, I have it,” that’s great, but we’re using it every day, and that’s your culture, and you’re empowering your staff to feel like they can do the same things by giving them tools and language to use it every day.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, I love that, especially about actually using the data, and I know that is a challenge, and we’ll dig into that a little bit more. But I think so many teams have the FDS data or other things, and they either maybe don’t know how to use it or there’s just no time or it’s hard to prioritize something, especially if you don’t quite understand it, so that was a good point. Marissa, anything else to add?

Marissa Altenburg:

Yeah, I’ll echo everything. And the only thing I’ll add is what it looks like on our team, and I think how it works out is that our teams are, we have an industry team, we have a career pathway team that are industry experts with student-facing, and then we have the data tech team, and everyone knows that team leads the way for what this could look like or how to strategize with them, but everyone, like Julia, that takes ownership and does it in their reports or when talking to campus partners and any other stakeholders. So I think that’s how it’s looked and that’s how we created that culture is because it is one of the pillars of our teams and what our work in career services looks like.

Julia Vollrath:

Yeah.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, that’s a good point. Sorry, Julia.

Julia Vollrath:

No, you’re good. I would just add, one of the trainings that I’ve done… That’s the other bit, you have to do trainings all the time. So I am doing a training almost every quarter, I think, on some aspect of data with the team, so it’s not this hidden thing that we’re not talking about. But one of my first trainings when we really said, “We are building this data culture,” is to help folks understand you use it every day. So think about when you get dressed in the morning, you are looking at your weather app and you’re deciding, what am I going to wear? If we’re in Florida, am I bringing my umbrella? Yes, it’s going to rain at probably 4:00 when you’re walking up to your car, because it always does. And that is data, all of that is data that has been sourced and put into a format that you can digest.

So I asked the team, “Why is it that you’re using that data and you feel confident in that data versus our data to decide when you should do a program or what kind of program, what type of student should we be targeting?” And it was accessibility. And so, that’s the other bit that we’ve been working really hard on is making it more accessible and demystifying it a bit. So dashboards are beautiful and we love them, but if you don’t train people on how to use the dashboard, that’s not helpful. So we’re spending that time to make it… We talk a lot about the user experience on the team and we’ve applied user experience principles to how we share data so that it is more, oh yeah, I know where that is, I know how to use it and I’m going to use it, just like I pull up my app, I know what the weather is and I know how to dress, we’re trying to build the same thing here with our data culture.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense, yeah. So I would just, on that note, love to dig into this how, how you go about building the data culture. So you talked about using user experience best practices, can you just talk a little bit more about what some of those are and how you’re applying that to career services?

Julia Vollrath:

Yeah, absolutely. Marissa, do you want to talk about how you’ve built your data reporting? Because I think it’s a beautiful example of the user experience and you share it monthly.

Marissa Altenburg:

Yeah, thank you. So I will preface that I did… User experience seems complicated and confusing, especially when they denote it as UX, you’re like, what is that, or at least I thought, what was that? So then, I did some LinkedIn Learning dives, and really, it reminds me of life design or design thinking of really just the first step is emphasizing with the audience, and I know I learned this in my PR background too, of who’s your audience, how are you going to cater to them, what do they need, how is it accessible?

So part of the how is, one, listening to the audience. So one of the pieces is our staff already feel like things are changing all the time and this is more work instead of that. So really making sure that they have the data at the right place, the right time, and in the right format, like Julia said, where they can use it. So my data monthly reporting has changed based on staff feedback. So right now, it is a dashboard that I update monthly and it is in Excel that’s really easy to use and it’s pretty little and at least pretty, biased opinion maybe, the table.

Julia Vollrath:

It’s pretty.

Marissa Altenburg:

And it has the numbers that they’re going to care to do their job, that they can tell the stories. And then, I also offer explanation of, “This is this data point, this is why I included it, this is how you could use it or why you should pay attention to it, this is how you access it.” Because when you’re equipping them with all the information they need to use it and having them take ownership of it, where they feel confident and that they can use it, then they start to use it, and I know that that’s changed since we’ve done this. And then, I will say we are a Microsoft Excel school, so that’s why I’ve used Excel.

And then, I also use Teams, so I share it out. I have it in a dashboard for over time, so they can see trends over time, they can see what’s important now and then what was important. So one, we can figure out those trends over time, but then two, they can identify on their own content gaps or what program they should be doing. So I will notice with the data, since I’ve been doing this for a few years now, one of the things I notice is our general foundational career services programs weren’t doing as well, because students could probably Google it, so it’s not useful. And I know when I did anecdotal conversations with students, it’s like, “What would make you come to a program?” And their answer always was, “Something that I can’t get anywhere else.” So then I thought, okay, what are more… And as a first-gen, that first-gen hat when I’m building things out, what does that look like?

So I know this summer, I did the personal branding, because I think that’s harder. You can Google it, it still doesn’t necessarily make sense, you’re like, when do we start it? There’s a lot of conversations about it, because it is something that they can’t really get anywhere else and they’re interested in because it helps them develop. So I think that’s how we’ve used the data, and again, with the Excel and doing it monthly, so it is timely. And thinking through that marketing lens too, if it’s consistent, so staff know, okay, around the first of the month, I’m going to get last month’s data so I know what to do and how to prepare and how to integrate it into my admin work. Because I think too, part of the data culture is just making it seem like another easy admin piece, because it’s part of doing your job well.

Julia Vollrath:

Yeah, I think that access is really important, but what Marissa talked about is why it’s important to them. So when you look at your tech, you’re going to have so many data points. In our uConnect platform, we could give you the stats on every single page and it could be this giant list of numbers and you’re going to be like, I don’t even know what you want me to do with this. But instead, Marissa breaks it down into a way that as our generation of students or staff are learning, top 10, top five, trends that she’s seeing, or what has been even more powerful that I love that Marissa does is that she calls out best practices. So it’s that reinforcing of standards that she’s seeing and she’s backing it up, best practice, with data. So it’s not like, oh, Marissa just really likes this person, no, Marissa has data that says this is a best practice and it’s working. And so, that has been really, really powerful.

Since we’ve been infusing this data culture and the using of data for decision-making and planning, one of the things that I found really exciting this year was one of the items that I give our staff is student availability data. So we’ve worked with our assessment and research within our division and the registrar to create this Power BI dashboard that shows where students are on campus but not in class, that’s a perfect time to do a workshop. And it has become such a part of our culture of building our programs, I have multiple staff asking, “When is that coming? When are you presenting on that? I’m starting my work and I really need this data.” And I don’t know that I’ve heard that before of, “I really need this data because I’m going to use it,” less of a, “Oh, I’m just curious what it will say,” no, “I need this in order to do my job well.”

And that was a, yeah, I think we have built quite the culture. I think that people are embracing it and they see how helpful it is because we made it accessible, we train them on it, you have to take the time to train and keep the conversation going or else you miss [inaudible 00:23:21] it becomes something that, oh yeah, we talked about that six months ago, I’m not confident. So we continue that conversation, and those monthly conversations on our Teams is very easy for staff to go in and read when they can. So every one of my staff members has platforms assigned to them within EdTech, and they’re responsible of sharing monthly data, and they each look different, which is fine, because it speaks to their personality and their platform, so they’re sharing it, but it’s always, always action-oriented. So they’re never just sharing data to share data, it’s always something I can do with the data, and that has been really important and we’ve tailored it to the reader, most important.

So that’s linked to user experience, it’s really tailored to the reader, it’s accessible, it’s easy to digest, they know where they can find it in a centralized location, so navigation, thinking of your website, it’s the navigation to find it. All of those are principles that we’ve put in, and then constantly changing where it needs to change so it’s not static, because the user changes, and that’s our staff and our students.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, yeah, I love that. And I think the the through line in both of your answers just now is consistency, so doing the consistent quarterly trainings on your end, Julia, Marissa, doing your monthly updates, it seems like that makes a big difference in that your team has come to expect that, that’s just become a part of their daily routine.

Julia Vollrath:

It’s a part of the culture.

Meredith Metsker:

Yes, exactly

Julia Vollrath:

You’re getting to know where that data is because she gives it to you every month.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah. And you’re training them on how to use it so they can feel confident in their abilities to find it, to analyze it, to correctly make decisions based on it.

Julia Vollrath:

Exactly, yeah.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah. And I imagine that gives them confidence too in the decisions that they’re making.

Julia Vollrath:

And it’s grounded in something, so when share that, you feel like, I have something backing me up. The data’s like your buddy back here. It’s like, “Yeah, I’ve got your back, I can show you through this.” And we train from day… Not day one, but new hires are required to do a data training. I don’t force it on their first day. They do have to do that within their first, I believe it’s first three months, while here at the center, so they understand that it’s part of our culture, we’re using it, and it doesn’t become a surprise expectation when they first get asked, “How’d you make that decision?” They know that this is part of the work that we do.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I think that’s a good segue into the why, so I want to dig into that too. In both of your perspectives, why is it so important to build this data culture and to get this team buy-in?

Julia Vollrath:

The data is that common language that we can use as centers to communicate with different stakeholders. I think that the role of a director in career services has changed immensely, from an internal role that’s leading a team to a external-facing role. My AVP is in more meetings with people not in the career center than she is with people in the career center, and that’s her job, is she’s with provosts, presidents, VPs, business leaders, all of this, and if you think about that common thread, that language, it’s data, they understand it. Business leaders use data in decision-making. We know what that North Star is, if you will, of student success and your academic mission of your university, and our work directly impacts that, and we can prove that through data. Instead of just saying, “We should be in the room,” let me show you the data that says that we should already have that seat at the table.

So it’s so important that we have it and we’re using it every day because our leaders are out there asking for it. And I’ve had, I got an email and, “I need it in two hours,” and if we hadn’t already created this culture, that would’ve been a really stressful situation. But because we’re already using data every day, “Oh yeah, I can pull that from this report I did, I sent you an email that had this before. I know that this person used that data for another talk that they did.” We come together as a center and a community and we put it together in maybe 30 minutes because it’s already there. So that why is so important, because it is an expectation that we can back up our work with data and outcomes and tie it to the university’s mission, tie it to, if you’re a land-grant institution like us, tie it to the mission of a land-grant institution to support your state.

All of these pieces are that common language that your board of trustees, your board of governors, your president, your business leaders, are using, and so you have to embrace that as a leader, but you have to get your staff to embrace it, because those are the future leaders, so you need to set them up for success as well. And it takes a village, as [inaudible 00:28:44] always says, and it takes a village with data, because you never know what data point will land. So sometimes, we like to give a little extra, and they’re always thankful, like, “Oh, I never would’ve thought to ask that.” Yeah, that’s why we’re here and that’s what we have, that’s our value-add.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, it sounds like you all have become a trusted source of not only just numbers, but the context that goes around those numbers, that’s so important.

Julia Vollrath:

Yes. Otherwise, data is dangerous.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, exactly.

Julia Vollrath:

It’s dangerous without context. So yes, we provide that context, just as important as the numbers.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Let’s see, Marissa, anything to add on the why?

Marissa Altenburg:

Yeah. I think when everyone can access data, one, it builds that Career Everywhere, but then it makes career services, it positions them, like Julia was mentioning, with that partnership across campus. And the story that I’m thinking of that recently happened is I was supporting Julia with college data requests, just trying to see how their students are engaging with the platform, specifically the Graduway platform that we have for that connections in community building, and I noticed that the Law School had less quantity of members, but then more quality private messaging was higher for them, but then the College of Medicine had way more users on there, but not as much interaction on there, so not as much engagement with the private messaging.

And I’m sharing them with our career pathways, or industry associate director, so then that way, she can share with the alumni association, so that they can tailor communication, support campaigns on getting those alumni on there, and then also maybe campaigns to the College of Medicine of, “Hey, you’re here now, how do we move forward, how do we make that change so that everyone can get the social capital and connections?” And then, I can also work with my partner at the College of Medicine in helping her with those communications as well. So that’s, again, just a way that the data not only informs, but it also fuels that collaboration and making that impact, at the end of the day.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And again, they trust you as a credible source of information, of decision-making. So I’m curious, how has building a data culture, really making it a shared priority across your entire team, made a difference for the career center, and what results have you seen, both qualitative or quantitative?

Julia Vollrath:

Yeah, I love that use of data terms, thanks.

Meredith Metsker:

Yes, thank you.

Julia Vollrath:

So it has made a huge difference, not only with confidence. I think we have seen this when staff have gone for promotions and applied, and during their interview process, they’re using data to support the work that they’ve done and tell their story about why they’re ready for that next level. Talk about ingrained in the culture when you’re using that in every way, not only are you using it to build your programs and to make those successful, and we’ve seen a great turnout in our attendance, our blog readership has been wonderful, we’ve looked at our data for our newsletter opens, they’re above higher ed standards when we look at data points for newsletter opens, so it’s changed all of that, but they’re using it to further their career, and you’re like, “Yeah, you get it, you know why it’s important,” and it’s been so great to see.

But also, with our credibility with campus. One of the colleges that we recently pulled together this beautiful report with different data points from traditional data points, how many of your students are coming in to do career planning appointments or attending workshops or outreaches, to really unique data points that we’ve never shared before, so this was our College of the Arts. And if you are a centralized career center whose university has a College of the Arts, sometimes it’s hard to figure out that value-add that you might have for that college as it’s an industry of who do you know, and the power of the faculty is amazing, because they’re from industry and they have all that, so where does our value-add come in?

So there were two data points that when we shared it with the college, they were blown away, one, that we understood their students, but two, that it showcased an opportunity for them to maybe increase their enrollment through minors and certificates. So the first one was from our graduation survey, or our First Destination Survey, and we ask students about experiential learning while they’re at UF. One of those options that they can select is gig work as a form of experiential learning. For the College of the Arts students, it was like 75% or higher of those students are doing gig work. That is our value-add, how do we help them understand the idea of a portfolio career?

So portfolio career is where I am in creative works, I have a portfolio of different businesses that I work with to provide my services. So maybe I’m a graphic designer, and so I’m a… Freelancer is what we typically called it before, but my portfolio is I work with these different offices, these different departments, these different ways to build this. And we can help them understand that that is a career path, it’s entrepreneurship, but also how they can use that gig work in order to get experiential learning and turn it from the, “Oh yeah, I just did side hustles where I helped with this social media,” or, “I designed this logo for my friend’s Etsy shop,” into that is real world work that you could share and tell the story of, and that was a place that we could add value.

And the college was like, “Oh yeah, yeah, of course that’s what our students are doing. They’re doing gig work, that’s what they need to do, that’s what we tell them to do.”

“Well, we see it in the data. How can we work together?”

And it was a really great moment of coming together between different leaders in the college and our team.

The second data point we shared with them was the number of students subscribed to our marketing media communication arts pathway, and they saw this huge number, and that was the third visited career pathway community on our uConnect platform, more so than some other pathways that you might think would be higher. And we helped them understand that this was a platform for them to not only showcase their events that they might be doing, but also their minors and their certificates to help with enrollment by showcasing the value of those, and the alumni database that Marissa talked about as well, because we have the integration, to have their alumni to connect with students in a less hands-on for the faculty way where they’re able to create that organic connection.

It was one of the most impactful meetings we’ve had with that college since I started here over 11 years ago, because we had this data to support it and we used the data to speak their language and to showcase that we understood their student population, and it has made a huge, huge difference. So that’s just one example, but I probably have a million different examples of how we’ve had wins with using data.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah. That is a really good example, because it shows not only that you understood their students, but also their goals, their bottom line, and you were able to prove exactly the connection between the career center and their bottom line, enrollment.

Julia Vollrath:

Exactly, yeah, exactly.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah. Marissa, anything to add there?

Marissa Altenburg:

No, I’ll just say I love those stories too, because it really shares how data and data storytelling can really make everyone’s work easier, and who doesn’t want that? That speaks to everybody.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, exactly. Speaking of the common language, how can we make our work easier? I love that. Okay, so throughout this conversation, you have both mentioned several different tools, Power BI, uConnect, Graduway, so on, so I am curious what tools and technologies you are using to gather, to analyze and to share your data, because I think that can be an intimidating part of data usage, so I’d love to hear what you all do.

Marissa Altenburg:

Yeah, I’ll take it away. I know I mentioned a little bit of this, so I’ll dive a little deeper, but I like to, again, like I said earlier, approach data with that user experience and design lens. So in my role, like was mentioned, I report monthly internally for data and then periodically with campus partners as needed, but on our campus-wide platform, so that Graduway, the Gator Network, and then the uConnect career hub. And like I said, where UF uses Microsoft, so using Excel just makes it easier, and the data I share is digestible and usable, so for our AVP and executive career director, but then also the career coaches doing the boots-on-the-ground work. And with that user experience lens, I’m keeping it simple, I’m making it clean, easy to as just tables and using basic formulas. So I don’t know about anyone else, but when I use Excel, nothing is more irritating than, speaking of user experience, than when I do something wrong with a formula and it just won’t tell me why, it’s just like, “No, we’re not doing that.”

Meredith Metsker:

You’re wrong.

Marissa Altenburg:

Yeah. I’m like, well, okay, can you help a girl out? So again, keeping it simple to have my sanity, but then also, I can troubleshoot if I need more complex formulas by Googling it, there’s great YouTube university videos, and then also ChatGPT and Microsoft Copilot has been helpful with being strategic or if I get stuck of, okay, I know this is my goal, but I don’t know what formula would make the most sense, because there’s probably, chances are, more than one formula that can get me to that end goal. I rely on pivot tables to get that deeper analysis, and again, there’s a lot of great LinkedIn Learnings or YouTube videos on how to do that and gain more confidence, and I will say, over time, it’s become a quick manageable task, so that’s helped.

And then, for uConnect and data reporting on that, I focus on metrics that show engagement, because I want to see how users, in our case students, took action, because that’s meaningful data, we can do something with that. And then, one of my favorite data points that we can look at with the uConnect platform, the dashboard, is the engagement rate, because to me, that shows what resonates with the students, and that’s where we can really take action as a staff with that data. So what are the content gaps?

So for example too is our newsletter data revealed that while students often say they’re intimidated by networking with appointments and programming and such, and it’s one of our least done career planning appointments, the number one opt-into event was networking events. So that’s interesting insight that we can use to either work with campus partners and offer more networking events and fill those gaps, or make sure that we’re doing content and education on how to build those meaningful relationships, not just messaging, “Hey, I need a job, help,” those professional pieces that go into that, especially thinking through that first-gen lens of, I don’t know what networking is, how do I even begin that process?

Another thing I’ve done to use the data too is, with uConnect, our student population communities. So those are curation kits that we have purchased that do a great job of automating the process, so it’s communities that run themselves, so it’s like another employee that would… It’s cheaper than salary. We noticed at first that they weren’t catching on, so the student population communities are the veteran ones for us and international students all focus on, so our uConnect platform is meant to be that 24/7 access career services. So with the data, I reshaped the communities to be UF-branded so that they don’t look different from our career pathway communities, and then focusing on the identity piece. And then, the communities were built to be central UF career services, but then I integrated the campus partners and had their information on there, where it made sense… Like in person, you would refer, the platform with these communities would do that now.

The example I can think of is with our UFIC, so our international center, we co-created an FAQ, because we know the career best practices and strategies and things like that, but then when it comes to the legality pieces, they are the experts. So having that, again, gave those international students a centralized place to find all the career things, but then knowledge to, one, either go to meet with their international advisor or answer those questions that they would have and be accurate information, and then it’s, again, accessible 24/7.

Another example that comes to my mind that I’m very pumped about is our veteran and military-connected community. We renamed that one so it aligned with campus, so thinking of Career Everywhere, we want to speak the same language and have the same communication to students all throughout UF community, so we renamed that to align with theirs, with conversations with them. But then in collaboration, we learned that the office doesn’t have access to student data due to classification, so they serve not only veterans technically, but then they serve the military-connected piece, so that’s families of them, so it’s harder to get data from that. But with the newsletter, students can opt into that community, and we have access to that data to work with them, and now they are a community expert, so they can contribute content and post in blogs to serve those students and cross-promote the things that they do. So again, students are getting that impact with those partners where it makes sense and then really embedding their expertise into the platform.

So overall, the tools don’t have to be intimidating with some practice, and especially with Excel, it just becomes another admin task and it adds real value in the data, again, sparks collaboration, it helps us tell those stories.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah, those are all really interesting tools that you’re using, and I love that a few of the things you brought up with the uConnect platform, of course, I’m obviously biased, I work here at uConnect, but I just love how you’re using the insights from the back-end of the virtual career center platform by uConnect to really see what is getting the most engagement. I think that’s maybe something folks don’t always see from just the front-end, it looks like just a website replacement, but it’s obviously a lot more than that. And in the back-end, you can see what articles are getting the most page views, what videos are getting the most clicks, you can see all of this information, what tools are being used. So it’s really cool that you’re using that to make informed decisions in real-time about what content do you keep, what gaps do you have, what do you get rid of, that’s hard to do when you’re just flying blind without that data.

Julia Vollrath:

And going off that, Meredith, a lot of your tech platforms that you have are going to have reporting. And so, it’s really something to take the time to sit with your client manager, or whatever the vendor calls their folks, to learn the reporting and to learn the dashboards that a lot of these products are having built in and utilizing that. You’re paying for that, so take the time to really understand it and how you can use it.

A lot of times, these data points that Marissa was talking about, she’s not pulling out of the system and doing fancy formulas in Excel on, it’s right there. It’s just understanding, going back to the very beginning where I talked about a data dictionary, understanding what the terms mean for your platforms. And a data dictionary isn’t anything fancy, it’s just a Word doc that has the term and then a bullet point with the definition underneath it. You’re not creating anything crazy here, you’re just having that central location to understand what that is. And so, I would say that is a tool that no one talks about a lot is this built-in data sources with your vendors, but you should all know how to use those and how the data points that they’re sharing out, what they mean and how you can use that every day.

The other bit that Marissa shared is Copilot. If you are a Microsoft school, please start using Copilot for your Excel, because it’s so integrated and it will help you do that. I can share an example of a data question that we had recently. So our one-on-one appointments with students are called career planning appointments, and in our system, we cannot pull a report on the availability of our staff to see the gaps, which is really important because we want to make sure that we have coverage at all times when we can for our students for these appointments, but there’s no real easy way for us to get this.

So in the past, a poor associate director would sit there and build out a spreadsheet, and it would take them hours to put all of our 30 staff members’ availability in the spreadsheet, and I thought there has to be a better way, and Copilot is your better way. So we just took what they gave us, so it was Word docs with their availability written out, and then I threw that in there and I asked it, “Can you tell me where gaps are?”

“These are your gaps.”

It took two minutes to do. And then, I got curious, which is my secret sauce for data [inaudible 00:48:16] is curiosity, and I thought, well, I also have this data over here with student availability, are we doing appointments at the right time? So I threw that in there, and that was a power BI dashboard that someone else did make for us, very fortunate, and it spit out when we should focus more time.

So it [inaudible 00:48:38] the gaps, and then it added, “And based on the student availability, you really need Wednesday afternoons, because you don’t have it and they’re free.”

And I was like, this would’ve taken so long, but because we use the tools… And I don’t code, so I think that’s important to know, no one codes on our team, we do not have a data analyst on our team, we are using Excel at the not basic, maybe moderate level, not expert, but in between, and it’s what we’ve learned from LinkedIn Learnings and things like that, to make it work. You don’t need to overcomplicate it by saying, “I need a Tableau dashboard that’s going to be filters and this and that,” just learn how to do a pivot table, it’s really easy, and add some color in there and you’ve got yourself a dashboard.

Meredith Metsker:

Love it, love it, that’s some great tactical advice. And on that note, as I start closing us out here, is there any other advice either of you would like to give our listeners who want to use data more effectively and want to get more buy-in from their teams?

Marissa Altenburg:

I can go first, yeah. One of my favorite things to do is, strategic is my second strength in strength [inaudible 00:49:59] and I will say, just thinking through, active listening to what other people need, and then how can we both accomplish our goals? So then that way, it doesn’t, again, feel like a task added to them, but really a way to make both of our lives easier and not more work.

The other two pieces of advice I have is, one, be patient. Culture change takes time, culture doesn’t change in a day. Maybe I’m speaking to myself here, because when I first got tasked with this, I was like, “Come on, everybody, how do you not see how important this is and how useful it is?” But over time, in building that data-informed approach, consistency, like we said earlier, and persistency, it matters to focus on. Positive reinforcement too, celebrating those small wins, highlighting when data leads to better decisions, showing people the value and the way it feels supportive and not intimidating.

And then, the other last piece I have is it’s equally important to emphasize the why and the how, like we’ve said. So helping your team understand why the data matters and how they can actually use it in their work, because when people see that the data just isn’t numbers, but tools to make their job easier, the impact is stronger and buy-in follows naturally.

Julia Vollrath:

Well said, I love it, yeah. I think also, that change management, when you’re trying to change any culture, so if you are trying to embrace this data culture, you’re asking folks to work differently, and so using aspects of change management is really important when you’re trying to do that. So their identity as a career coach might need to shift, and so allowing them that moment to feel that shift is just as important as all the trainings that I have done. So we are asking you to work differently, yes, and that does mean that something has to change because of it. So we really used a change management model to allow for that grief period of my identity changing a bit, and then we reinforced that with education and support.

So I think Marissa and I used also our student affairs background and used a lot of student development theory with our staff and learning theory to help with this culture. And so, we are all in this, working with students and teaching them things and adjusting and having them embrace new ways of going about things, apply that to your staff, use that empathy to build a culture, building education, and it’s not going to happen overnight, like Marissa said, it will take time. But when you see it happen organically, it’s amazing, it’s a beautiful thing.

Meredith Metsker:

I love that, those are all great pieces of advice. Is there anything else either of you would like to add before I start wrapping us up?

Julia Vollrath:

No.

Meredith Metsker:

Okay. If people would like to connect with you or learn more from you, where’s a good place for them to do that?

Julia Vollrath:

LinkedIn.

Meredith Metsker:

So you’re both on there quite a bit.

Julia Vollrath:

Yes. Marissa is someone I try and be like, Marissa is very active on LinkedIn, so definitely follow her. But we’re both loving LinkedIn to share. Please connect, ask any questions, also happy to jump on a call and talk about how we’ve done this with anyone. But LinkedIn is the best way to reach me.

Meredith Metsker:

Cool.

Marissa Altenburg:

Same thing, LinkedIn, I check it multiple times a day.

Meredith Metsker:

Same, it’s just always open.

Marissa Altenburg:

Yep.

Meredith Metsker:

And I’ll also note for our listeners that both Julia and Marissa are in the Career Everywhere community as well, which is free and open to any career services leader in higher ed, so if you haven’t checked that out, go ahead and join. I’m sure you can ask them questions there, but there’s always good discussions and they’re both active in they’re sharing best practices all the time. So you can find that at community.careereverywhere.com. Okay, so now, I’m going to close this out with the segment I do at the end of every podcast episode, so this is the answer a question, leave a question thing. So I’ll ask you a question our last guest left for you, and then you will leave a question for the next guest. So our last guests were Krysta Foster and Shahnaz Masani of Michigan State, and they left this question for you. If you had to define your personal and/or professional purpose in five words or short phrases, what would they be?

Julia Vollrath:

I’ll go first. I love this question, thank you so much. It really made me think about my personal brand and identity, so that was really exciting for me. But mine would be leading with empathy drives innovation.

Meredith Metsker:

Oh, I like that. Leading with empathy drives innovation, okay.

Julia Vollrath:

Yeah. So using that empathetic leadership and supporting folks, it just will naturally drive them to be innovative. Yeah, that’s mine. Marisa, what is yours?

Marissa Altenburg:

I like it. This one actually was in my LinkedIn headline, because I’ve thought about this before. Love the question too. But mine would be designing a better future, because I really think that I am a designer and creative, just not in the way that traditional designers are, whether it’s designing education or tech tool strategies, because I do think it makes a better future. The Career Everywhere specifically, all of that really makes a better world and everyone confident and competent, so designing a better future.

Meredith Metsker:

I love that, those are both great phrases. So what question would you like to leave for the next guest?

Marissa Altenburg:

Okay. So your question will be, if you could choose any character from a book or TV show to lead your university or career services department, who would it be and why?

Meredith Metsker:

I love that. I’m curious, what would yours be? Because I know UF is in a presidential search right now, right?

Julia Vollrath:

[inaudible 00:55:57]

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah. I don’t want to put you on the spot, maybe for… Yeah, I’m trying to think what mine would be.

Julia Vollrath:

Right? It’s such a good question. Marissa came up with it and I was like, yes, you have to ask this, I love it so much.

Meredith Metsker:

That’s a really good one.

Julia Vollrath:

Maybe Professor McGonagall would be great-

Meredith Metsker:

I love her.

Julia Vollrath:

… as a director or even president. She has been through a lot, she stands her ground, she supports her students, she’ll go to battle for her students.

Meredith Metsker:

Literally.

Julia Vollrath:

Yeah. And she just seems like a really powerful woman leader, so I think I would go with Professor McGonagall.

Meredith Metsker:

I was literally listening to Chamber of Secrets earlier this morning.

Julia Vollrath:

I love it.

Meredith Metsker:

I’m re-listening to all the audiobooks. She’s no nonsense, but still empathetic.

Julia Vollrath:

Exactly. Dream. I love it.

Meredith Metsker:

How about you, Marissa, do you have any thoughts?

Marissa Altenburg:

I didn’t even think of an answer, but the first thing that came to my mind was Elle Woods, and I don’t have any strategy to bring up besides just women in leadership and I feel like she can accomplish. But it does sound like your option, Julia, might be better.

Meredith Metsker:

I feel like Elle Woods would also be great.

Julia Vollrath:

Yeah.

Meredith Metsker:

Yeah. She would do her first convocation speech, go, “What, like it’s hard?” Just go from there. I love that. All right, well, thank you both so much for taking the time to join me on the podcast and for sharing all of your expertise and your wisdom and your great question for the next guest. This was a really fun conversation, and I just really appreciate you both taking the time.

Julia Vollrath:

Thank you.

Marissa Altenburg:

Thanks for having us.